Have Ubisoft and Massive Interactive made The Division easy for Female gamers?

[CymroMi]

I have been playing The Division now for over 700 hrs and would say that I am experienced enough in the game to notice a change in the characters that you create on your Ubisoft/Division Account. Mainly because I have been playing the game for so long now which is coming up to 10 months. But I have discovered something that I feel I need to share with you all. A couple of days ago, I decided on creating a 3rd Division character but my partner to me "why don’t you create a Female character instead of another Male." So, I did just that. But … I have noticed something playing the game from a Female Gamers POV. Have Ubisoft made it easier for Female Gamers. Listen I am in no way whatsoever having a dig at Female Gamers. My partner is one of them and she is if not better than me with certain games and asked me. "Why! and how have I come to this conclusion and where is the evidence to prove otherwise."

Okay the evidence is staring you right in the face. I have been gaming probably before some of our forum members were have been alive. I have often played both Male and Female characters in a game. So, I am no stranger to player either side in a gaming environment. My partner said, its bringing out your inner woman’s intuition and that is the reason why you are playing different. And because it is a woman and not a man so naturally you will be cautious and protective of your character than you would playing a Male character.

You know what. She could be onto something here. I found weapons and gear that I didn’t fined on my second character. I have progressed to level 6 faster than my second character. So, going back to my earlier question… Have Ubisoft and Massive Entertainment made the game easier and less stressful for Female Gamers. Looking at it from a Male POV I think they have, but only slightly. It is still challenging but although, at the same time - I am finding it a lot easier to play. I asked my Partner the same question and she is a Gamer as much as me… and she said they haven’t. But I beg to differ because why am I finding it a lot easier that is the one thing that is bugging me and to be honest is Why...? I have know some awesome Female Gamers that are the real deal and they will take on any Male Gamer and beat them at their own game. My point is… If they have made it easier. shame on Ubisoft for doing so.

Therefore, Could you Guys create a Female Division Agent and then confirm either way and concur if I am indeed correct in my assumption. Another thing is I have died less as a Female character than a Male one. How is this possible when it is the same game.

Thanks,

 

[Oh. daesu]

Ok, off the bat (Americans use this idiom?), I think you're touching on a psychological level that gets really hard to "second guess" , which I think is the point you're making. Or this could be my very own tangent.

So, the basic point that I'd make is this game has been broken for so long (i.e. so many problems) I really doubt Massive would have coded for female (psych) for the express purpose of helping their game play. Seriously, it became more broken in each patch. An apt joke was to ask whether "the devs even played this game at all". Personally, I can't entertain the notion of massive catering for female players in such a way. It's has been too fucking broken for that intentional design level.

These things can be argued endlessly, but I think it is hard to get around how broken it is to argue there is deliberate coding to help the women folk.

The interesting angle, is how having a female character, with proportions that resonate with female players more than males, affects a player's game style (esp. male) players.

I have a female character and have noticed how the armour *fits* in a way that was more from a possible female pov. Esp. leveling up, since they try to have lower level armour look more daggy than end level armour. A guy-centric game has certain dimensions appealling to teenage boys. So, the progession is more about being more revealing and extreme proportions. Other games counter this by having bigger hips than an infantile obsession with the mammary glands (too judgemental?).

The right people can write 100 page thesis on this shit.

So having a more of a "girls than guys pov" female causes us to be less aggressive which can actually improve our survivablity in our gaming style. What you're bringing up is more "us" (phys) than anything "they" (i.e. massive by design) have done.

 

[DeadSockPuppet]

My second toon is a female and I can't say that I found progression or current end game content easier for that toon than my 2 make toons.  I haven't really looked at how the gear fits differently than it does on male toons, but this is typical when gear is "unisex" in an PRG from my experience.  The toon models the devs make are male and female and they model the gear on them based on the sex, this mifht be what you're noticing.  

As for a protective nature towards the toon, I went the exact opposite when I started her.  I built her as a badass that was designed on then shotgun rusher NPCs.  She ran an M870 primary, an SASG-12 secondary and a double barrel sidearm and when the bullets startered flying she'd run head-first into combat as opposed to using cover and hanging back.  

I'd like to point out that you mentioned this is your 3rd toon and you have 700+ hrs into the game.  The more you play a game, the easier it gets, especially the bulk of The Division which is mainly static (i.e. Missions and boss battles that don't change so you can play on "auto-pilot" and farm).  Also, the game has become a LOT more forgiving and easier since 1.4/1.5 dropped.  

Like you, I found the game easiest and have the best build with my 3rd toon, mine however is male.  My initial toon was day 1 and has been rebuilt for each update, so he has been broken and fixed many times.  My second toon was built for 1.2 and didn't change until 1.5, so she's a was never really broken and is fairy solid.  My 3rd toon was built in 1.4/1.5, so I had the experience of what not to do and a "easier" game to work with.  

Not sure if I answered your question, but those would be my observations on this.  

 

[CymroMi]

Ok, off the bat (Americans use this idiom?), I think you're touching on a psychological level that gets really hard to "second guess" , which I think is the point you're making. Or this could be my very own tangent.

So, the basic point that I'd make is this game has been broken for so long (i.e. so many problems) I really doubt Massive would have coded for female (psych) for the express purpose of helping their game play. Seriously, it became more broken in each patch. An apt joke was to ask whether "the devs even played this game at all". Personally, I can't entertain the notion of massive catering for female players in such a way. It's has been too fucking broken for that intentional design level.

These things can be argued endlessly, but I think it is hard to get around how broken it is to argue there is deliberate coding to help the women folk.

The interesting angle, is how having a female character, with proportions that resonate with female players more than males, affects a player's game style (esp. male) players.

I have a female character and have noticed how the armour *fits* in a way that was more from a possible female pov. Esp. leveling up, since they try to have lower level armour look more daggy than end level armour. A guy-centric game has certain dimensions appealling to teenage boys. So, the progession is more about being more revealing and extreme proportions. Other games counter this by having bigger hips than an infantile obsession with the mammary glands (too judgemental?).

The right people can write 100 page thesis on this shit.

So having a more of a "girls than guys pov" female causes us to be less aggressive which can actually improve our survivablity in our gaming style. What you're bringing up is more "us" (phys) than anything "they" (i.e. massive by design) have done.

To bes honest, I couldn't agree more. Although they have made vast improvements to the game from the first official release in March 2016.

 

[CymroMi]

My second toon is a female and I can't say that I found progression or current end game content easier for that toon than my 2 make toons.  I haven't really looked at how the gear fits differently than it does on male toons, but this is typical when gear is "unisex" in an PRG from my experience.  The toon models the devs make are male and female and they model the gear on them based on the sex, this mifht be what you're noticing.  

As for a protective nature towards the toon, I went the exact opposite when I started her.  I built her as a badass that was designed on then shotgun rusher NPCs.  She ran an M870 primary, an SASG-12 secondary and a double barrel sidearm and when the bullets startered flying she'd run head-first into combat as opposed to using cover and hanging back.  

I'd like to point out that you mentioned this is your 3rd toon and you have 700+ hrs into the game.  The more you play a game, the easier it gets, especially the bulk of The Division which is mainly static (i.e. Missions and boss battles that don't change so you can play on "auto-pilot" and farm).  Also, the game has become a LOT more forgiving and easier since 1.4/1.5 dropped.  

Like you, I found the game easiest and have the best build with my 3rd toon, mine however is male.  My initial toon was day 1 and has been rebuilt for each update, so he has been broken and fixed many times.  My second toon was built for 1.2 and didn't change until 1.5, so she's a was never really broken and is fairy solid.  My 3rd toon was built in 1.4/1.5, so I had the experience of what not to do and a "easier" game to work with.  

Not sure if I answered your question, but those would be my observations on this.  

I have picked up so much 256 gear my chest is bulking at the seams with 256 gear and weapons. Although I need to sit back and re-evaluate my gear and MODS. I need to do some tweaking to get the best results. I am on 256 Gear Score now which is the highest it will go I think at the moment. I too found my 3rd character to be easier. I cannot explain why this is... My partner is a Nurse Practitioner and she said it's "Honey, it's purely a physiological effect because you are playing a Female character as a Male. You would naturally adopt the Neanderthal approach to protect a Female." I love it when she she talks all intelligent with a serious face. she maybe right...   

 

[Oh. daesu]

It happens in other ways too.

I've had pb's from situations where the beginning I've almost been cripable, forcing me to adopt a smarter game play.

 

[Oh. daesu]

And in other news @CymroMi, my sympathies with your partner being a nurse. 

Had a friend who's partner was a nurse. Ironically, he got zero sympathy when sick. She'd just remind him of the people with more serious ailments that she dealt with on a daily basis, than the humble flu or cold.

 

[RimBlock]

Interesting idea.  To go one further I made a black female character a few weeks ago and noticed a few things.

Getting from Brooklyn to Manhattan (Clearing the police station) was much easier (this was my 3rd Agent and the one before her died around 6 times with the grenade spam or getting stuck on the cover).  This Agent died twice.

Now on the other hand.  I have not managed to complete a Survival mission with her at all.  My main Agent has completed missions a number of times.

One factor that feeds in though is that the game has had updates between my 3 characters being created.  The game has changed so if you really wanted to do a test then it would have to be creating male and female Agents now and playing both of them through.

Female Agents do not equal female players so the chance of any 'tuning' at the backend are, IMO, pretty unlikely.  Human interaction however is a very real thing and I have found myself balking at shooting a female agent at the beginning because the Agent was female (regardless of the sex of the actual player).  Hearing so many female Agents with male voices over voice comms soon put rest to that reservation though  :10_wink: .

 

[CymroMi]

One benefit, oh actually there is two. One the uniform. :17_heart_eyes:

Then there is the fact that she is qualified and licensed to write prescriptions so I don't have to visit the Drs unless it's something she cannot diagnose. :14_relaxed:

 

[DeadSockPuppet]

One factor that feeds in though is that the game has had updates between my 3 characters being created.  The game has changed so if you really wanted to do a test then it would have to be creating male and female Agents now and playing both of them through.

This was my thought too, combining the knowledge of the game (from multiple playthrus, listening to more podcasts, watching more vids, forum/Discord/Band/Reddit discussions, and trial & error) with the game getting "easier" and less frustrating make it impossible to accurately test this theory unless two toons are made and played to the same point in the same update.  

Human interaction however is a very real thing and I have found myself balking at shooting a female agent at the beginning because the Agent was female (regardless of the sex of the actual player).

This has never been an issue for me.  I've been playing RPGs for over 20 years and for the bulk of that I've tended to play female characters and more often than not they're my first or primary character.  Because of this, I've accepted that female and male characters should be treated the same and that both can kill your character the same.  Just because a character wears a dress and makeup doesn't mean she can't sneak up behind you and cut your throat in the same fashion as a male asssassin in a form-fitting thrive's outfit.  

Most RPGs treat male and female characters the same (in the sense they can have the same classes, skills, talents, weapons, gear & min/max stat scores) and only differentiate them by aesthetics (shape of body, softness/harness of facial features, height, weight). Because of this, I try to treat them the same and respond to them the same.  And since I tend to play female characters, I just try to assume the sex of the player is irrelevant, which helps.

 

[quinch1199]

Okay the evidence is staring you right in the face. I have been gaming probably before some of our forum members were have been alive. I have often played both Male and Female characters in a game. So, I am no stranger to player either side in a gaming environment. My partner said, its bringing out your inner woman’s intuition and that is the reason why you are playing different. And because it is a woman and not a man so naturally you will be cautious and protective of your character than you would playing a Male character.

Short answer is ... no. 

The global difficulty level for Avatars of a male vs. those of a female will not be any different. Firstly consider that the additional coding required just would not be cost effective from Massive's point of view, especially as Avatars can be selected by gender by ... any gender of player ... such a task just wouldn't be worth it and likely never even occurred to them. 

Also consider that your (as touched on in previous responses) are not objective. You have 700hrs of gameplay and EXPERIENCE that, like it or not, strongly influences your gameplay ability - including muscle memory functions which are purely subconscious. Memory of where Ai spawn, pre-programmed attack routes etc. Your abilities from such a long time in the game all influence how you play even if you don't think they do. 

Have Massive made the game more APPEALING to female gamers by including more realistic female character Avatar builds? Certainly! Having served alongside female troops I can say that a lot of front-line personnel have similar body types to those in the game and it was nice to see (for a change) no hint of sexualisation in the Avatars and that (as I often said) once you put on a uniform... male or female... all genders are gone and you're just a trooper. Granted that's often, unfortunately, not the case in reality but at least we have a game that points towards that ideal. 

As for being more protective of a female Avatar ... I can't speak for you but, to me, it seems a very odd & unusual idea to think about. You have no character investment (no personal, individual, character back story to build any emotional attachment to) and 98% of the time do you really pay any attention to the gender of the Avatar whilst in-game?? For myself, as hinted above, I become very "gender blind" in such situations in reality and in games so find the idea very alien. 

 

[genedjr]

I am older than dirt - I have been playing video games since Pong (In a bar).
My first agent was a male, my second female.  The second is my solo char with the first being the one I team play with my son.

I created the avatar to meet my needs, but expected no playing differences.  And I am seeing none.  Note quinch199 (OK How do I insert member link /sigh) remark about cost.  Millions are spent on the production/advertising of games like this and without a direct story line requiring differences, an Avatar is an Avatar.

My first Avatar was made quickly without thought to get playing as soon a possible.  My second was designed to look like a badass.  I love the black avatar and added a neck tattoo.  She is badass.

So your experience changes how you play, and maybe, your attitude changes with gender - I don't think I ever thought of that aspect of the game, and bravo - another way to enjoy gaming.

...gene

 

[quinch1199]

I am older than dirt - I have been playing video games since Pong (In a bar).
My first agent was a male, my second female.  The second is my solo char with the first being the one I team play with my son.

I created the avatar to meet my needs, but expected no playing differences.  And I am seeing none.  Note quinch199 (OK How do I insert member link /sigh) remark about cost.  Millions are spent on the production/advertising of games like this and without a direct story line requiring differences, an Avatar is an Avatar.

My first Avatar was made quickly without thought to get playing as soon a possible.  My second was designed to look like a badass.  I love the black avatar and added a neck tattoo.  She is badass.

So your experience changes how you play, and maybe, your attitude changes with gender - I don't think I ever thought of that aspect of the game, and bravo - another way to enjoy gaming.

...gene

And if you want to inject a little roleplaying into your gameplay.... helps loads

 

[DeadSockPuppet]

@genedjr - put the @ before the name of the member and it gives the name the blue "shout out box" and let's them know they were mentioned in the post.