TD2 - so far at WT5

[genedjr]

OK, lets take lvl 1 to 30

lvl 1 - I used a pistol to clear to the White House. OMG - what fun!!!  This gave me real hope that Massive and UBI really listened to input for pistols.  And I have used Pistol as last resort for clearing ... wow, the pistol is back!!

But from there....

2 to 10 (+- a couple of levels) was OK.  Pretty much like TD1 as if you forgot cover, even for a moment, you were dead.  NPCs were a little spongy, but not overly so.
10-13 - NPCs were very very spongy and you were a clay pigeon (or less).   One hit out of cover (and sometimes in cover) and you were dead.  Not unlike TD1.  And no, I still don't like it.

The grind really starts here for the solo player.  14 thru 23-25 was hell.  That is until I discovered to skip the side missions and just do the mains.  Unlike TD1 doing sides really did not prepare you for the main missions (read level up).  Just go do mains.  So after struggling with death after death (after death...), I focused on mains and got to 25 in a couple of days.

OK 1 through 25 (for me) was a significant march.  I learned how the cover system changed.  I learned how the different weapon types changed, and most importantly I learned how to attack NPCs.  It's way different than TD1.  NPCs in TD2 behave like smart NPCs in TD1 or Dumb Hunters in TD1 - they do really cools moves, then expose themselves to death.  Really interesting - if you are prepared, normal NPCs die quickly.  If not - you die.

Minor boss NPCs - I simply love the armor breaking off.  AND notice that your team-mates armor will also break off - just WOW.  But I digress...

25 thru 30, for me, was a total grind.  I hated it....  Grinding a rinse and repeat, over and over.  Different landscape, same objective (or lack there of).  Just a grind. I hope my experience is unique, but fear its the norm....

OK, the progression and missions - I F'ING LOATH that missions in every zone level with the player.  So you can't try stuff where you know you won't be killed.  grrrrrr.

Now WT1 to WT5 is much more interesting - but that is for later...

I love this game.
...gene

 

[RimBlock]

Interesting.  

I ran through the mains and sides at the same time (and got buried from 1st place to almost last on the Clan rankings as other saved the sides and got the scaled up exp from them later  :5_smiley: .  I didn't find it too hard but I drove through it to get to WT-4 fairly quickly as I had played the first part 3 times in Alpha / Beta testing cycles already.

I will start a second Agent soon and it will be interesting to work a bit more slowly through the levels and see what the experience is.

I found the grind up the WT's to be more irritating as you need a set gear score and you can bypass the slow grind but just equipping the best you can find until you get to the top GS available for that WT.  The missions are not so hard that you have to have a decent setup to climb.  Feels like someone with a high enough gear score dustbin (trashcan) lid could make it even with randoms.  

I am not really saying the missions are easy but just that you don't have to have any sort of build to be able to move up.  No tuning is required to enable progression which is a shame.  I never needed to move to Hard level missions even when just entering a new WT and not because I am super good cos I ain't :51_scream:   :14_relaxed: .

I also find the missions a bit easy now and Tidal Basin I did with 3 other randoms until we hit the hovercraft and one dropped out.  We completed with 3 and I swear one guy was chicken pecking the enemies.  To be fair though, my rough build is fairly good and it is probably a lot harder with a lower GS.

Might have to try a couple of Heroics  :5_smiley:

 

[genedjr]

One thing I forgot to list...

As you clear control points you can go back to them one every 24 hours and refresh gear.  This helped significantly as I solo'd up.  Now, not the main loot chest, but the gun cases and armor cases refresh every 24 hours.

...gene

 

[RimBlock]

Yep, this is pretty good and helps keep you a little focused on keeping your control points, however if you loose then and recapture you also get the big loot chest as well  :10_wink: .

If you knock them up to alert level 5 you also get a gun mod but they are much harder, especially solo.

 

[quinch1199]

If you knock them up to alert level 5 you also get a gun mod but they are much harder, especially solo.

Pretty sure it turns to Challenging difficulty at alert level 5. The biggest issue we've faced running an alert level 4 or 5 Control point is the friendly civilian milita dying!!

Its a challenge to clear the control point, during the fight the militia get wiped...we kill all the enemies and...have to call in more militia to take the area = more enemies waves spawn again = militia die = calling in more militia = militia die = calling in more militia....etc etc! 

After it all and if we got lucky enough the militia leader DIDN'T die rewards just didn't seem enough. 

Currently running on the theory that the best pay off, time vs. effort, is alert level 3 only. You still get blueprints drop at least and you don't feel you've wasted 30mins to get two loot drops. 

As to what @genedjr and his experiences. I found 1-30 pretty much perfectly balanced as a new experience. Cover matters, PLANNING your engagement completely before you pull the trigger the first time is vital. Where will I take cover at first, where is my next two fall back points, can I kite the enemy into a doorway perhaps where I have good cover, are they groups so I can take a few out with one grenade or crowd control them with something incendiary etc.

Yes. I did go through all these thoughts before doing anything. If I got jumped unexpectedly...I ran, I ran and ran. I felt no point in fighting on their terms at all. 

The issue I have now is that with WT4/WT5 the group mentality is back to - tanky enemies + DPS & armour over tactics. Challenging missions are ONLY challenging due to numbers of Ai and how unapologetically tanky they are. There are no real tactics to overcoming them except overwhelming firepower. 

The Ai that was interesting and good in 1-30 is circumvented as the mobs haven't kept pace with the players so the game design adds more Ai, more waves & buffs health. 

I'm all for ARMOURED enemies. Simply the best idea of a boss/high level enemy. I have an issue with enemies clearly NOT armoured having the same level of armour as those huge sledgehammer whielding monsters. Body armour vests, sure but the balance just seems off. Ideally the way to cover Challenging and higher (in the future) missions is surplant the base Ai behaviour and enemies completely. I had high hopes with the Black Tusks being an opportunity to fully replace the normal Ai factions in all gameplay after level 30 AND for them to have a ramped up Ai ... perhaps a step down from full blown Hunter level. Gameplay can then be adjusted with the addition or deduction of how many Ai mobs there were. A group of four "sub-prime" Hunter Ai Black Tusks should be more than enough of a challenge for a single player for example in most scenarios. Not only exhausting the players skills but also forcing the player to plan engagements as I did in the 1-30 experience. 

Yes, I know Ai is a deep and complex thing but since late in Div1's run they developed the Hunter Ai which...to everyones applause...is pretty much perfect. JUST LIKE PLAYING AGAINST ANOTHER PLAYER. A Hunter literally scares a lot of players still (me included) when they appear in Div 1 or Div 2. I really think Ubisoft/Massive missed an opportunity to make a clean cut in game style after players hit World Tiers. It seems they presented it to us as that but didn't follow through with Ai development as the Black Tusks seem to work on the same Ai cluster as the irregular faction mobs do. 

I still enjoy the game but apart from running resupplies etc in the open world the higher difficulty missions just seem an artificial grind again which is unfortunate. 

 

[RimBlock]

My mistake, I think the Control Point max alert level is 4.

1. = Normal
   
2. = Hard
   
3. = Challenging
   
4. = Heroic
   

Yep the sweet spot for the mobs is 3.  I did a 4 with TW-Bear who I run with sometimes in the clan and we died a few times but the thing with the Control Points is they don't reset to the beginning if you die so you can just grind it out, which I am not much of a fan of but hey...

Fully agree that I would have liked to have seen some mini hunter AI and challenging / heroic seems just to be throwing more of the same but tanker versions.  Saying that I can generally complete Tidal Basin with randoms on Challenging but Heroic we could not get past.  Too many golds and flying bombs and grenades etc.

Also agree with the fall back.  When playing the Island stronghold soon after it opened on Challenging no one was particularly geared up and we just got swamped in particular areas so we ended up aggro'ing the enemies and falling back to the last section where possible and taking them out as they came through.  Worked fairly well but the two sledgehammer guys at the same time were a major problem.

The best / worst I have seen with dealing with the boss is in the mission where you are facing the flamer boss underground (Lincoln Memorial).  With some randoms the boss came out and one guy just ran circles around him right next to him and he just span around and around.  Easy kill but so cheesy.  They really should build something in to the AI to prevent that.

 

[quinch1199]

All that I've said regarding the game, difficulty etc seems to be known and on the radar to solve by Ubisoft (as per last SOTG) is seems to good times!

I know they can't change the whole game and swap out Ai mobs but we will see what they come up with. 

Those sledgehammer guys are nasty...especially that burst of speed they have! Wondering if they can be held with a shock from something...we need shock grenades or similar.

 

[genedjr]

Those sledgehammer guys are nasty.

I agree.  While it's really hard to time right, a jump/roll to the left/right as they start to swing gives a lot of time to shoot them up.  But mistime it once and your pretty hurt/dead.  

Splash damage from grenades seems completely useless even when they are standing on top of one.  And that attack run pulls them out of range anyway.

Fire Turret seems to work about half the time allowing you to take them down.

But RANGE and a LMG seems to work best .

...gene

 

[genedjr]

Control Points is they don't reset to the beginning if you die so you can just grind it out,

They will reset if all your support civi's die off while you're trying to get back into action.  Had that happen to me a couple of times.

...gene

 

[RimBlock]

Oh,  the only time I have seen all the green guys die I came back and the Control Point was unclaimed (grey).  I then fired the flare and awaited the counterattack.

Have had a couple where the  greens had died and I could not fire a flare after capturing as another team had been sent and had to wait until they arrived.

Haven't done them in a while though so maybe they changed something.

 

[RimBlock]

All that I've said regarding the game, difficulty etc seems to be known and on the radar to solve by Ubisoft (as per last SOTG) is seems to good times!

I know they can't change the whole game and swap out Ai mobs but we will see what they come up with. 

Those sledgehammer guys are nasty...especially that burst of speed they have! Wondering if they can be held with a shock from something...we need shock grenades or similar.

How about the blind firefly (or is it the drone) ?.  That may work if they don't get shot down.

 

[Oh. daesu]

Fire flys don't seem to get shot down in my experience. And when the target run s, they are self guilding

 

[genedjr]

Fire flys don't seem to get shot down in my experience. And when the target run s, they are self guilding

I need to work with these more.  For me the range is too short.  But it's a thought.

...gene

 

[genedjr]

My mistake, I think the Control Point max alert level is 4.

1. = Normal
   
2. = Hard
   
3. = Challenging
   
4. = Heroic
   

I agree, the sweat spot is 3 - blueprints are the BOMB.

So as we were just seeing what would happen, my team of 4 (all long time friends) decided to do a alert level 4 - O.M.G.!

This was way fun.  While the MOBs were a little spongy, there were zillions of them.  And they used cover, and the flanked, and they did cover-to-cover moves.  You could see armor breaking off purples and golds and bosses.  It was grand.

We died at various times, re-spawned and ran back.  Makes challenging look like the run to the White House with a pistol at the beginning of the game.   OH MY - 

The drawback - the loot was crap.  I did not get one GS500 item.  Neither did any in my team.  

So, if you really want a challenge in the game - this is it.  It really was platoon tactics against a short squad.  Now to do them without having a re-spawn. 

...gene

 

[RimBlock]

You'll have to do it quick.  I hear they are looking at the differences in difficulty between Challenging and Legendary and based on past experience, I suspect they will nerf the Legendary  :51_scream: .

To my mind;

• Normal: For players with stuff.
  
• Hard: For players with high end GS stuff for that WT
  
• Challenging: For players with some synogies in their builds and some skill / experience.
  
• Legendary: Highly tuned stuff and good skill / experience.
  

There are of course grey areas of overlap between experience / skills and stuff and I mean skills as player ability not turrets or hives.

The problem is when there is a vocal group with GS500 stuff and they cannot do challenging / Legendary.

Ran with the clan over the weekend, geared someone up and got Invaded Roosevelt Island done with @quinch1199.  Hopefully now we can get to have another go at getting through Tidal Basin Invaded on Challenging.  That one has been smacking me and two others down hard with the grenade and exploding drone spam.  Add the War hound 1 shot kills and snipers and .... well is wasn't pretty   :5_smiley: .

I think pulse should have an emp version that disables drones and turrets for a set time like they have and use against us.

Oh and one tip for those who may not know (like I didn't until last weekend), Warhounds are damaged pretty well by the toxic gas.

 

[Oh. daesu]

I need to work with these more.  For me the range is too short.  But it's a thought.

...gene

Yeah, they aren't long range. The Destructor variant targets weak points which makes it good for some bosses and specialty units. It's handy soloing missions or dz in that way. Not all bosses have weaks tho.

 

[quinch1199]

I think pulse should have an emp version that disables drones and turrets for a set time like they have and use against us.

OMG What a great idea! It would make Pulse actually worth carrying.

Oh and one tip for those who may not know (like I didn't until last weekend), Warhounds are damaged pretty well by the toxic gas.

Great tip. Never knew that but makes sense as the gas is a corrosive against non-organic compounds (yes, Massive did actual research into corrosive gases that will damage/melt anything except skin & flesh).

Ran with the clan over the weekend

It was great to finally get hold of you online! Pity I struggled to hear you though.

I still have an issue hearing other people via Discord for some reason which I need to resolve. I can hear one or two people fine but the majority I'm playing with at the moment are whisper quiet for some reason...even though I've boosted their input by 200%. 

 

[RimBlock]

It was great to finally get hold of you online! Pity I struggled to hear you though.

I still have an issue hearing other people via Discord for some reason which I need to resolve. I can hear one or two people fine but the majority I'm playing with at the moment are whisper quiet for some reason...even though I've boosted their input by 200%. 

That is really strange.  The rest of the team can hear me fine and I can hear you.  I can boost at my end but don't want to blow everyones socks off :5_smiley: .

If you are around at a good overlap time next weekend maybe we can do some testing and find a reasonable compromise.

Oh, one other thing I was quite surprised about is the lack of lag, considering our locations, when we all teamed up.  US, UK and Asia all running together at times and I didn't see any big lag at all.

 

[quinch1199]

yeah, gameplay was smoooooooth.... really nice and surprising. The audio issue is my end, its not just you who's very quiet for me so I'm going to rummage in Windows audio settings.

Keep an eye open for each other, make sure we're in a voice channel when online and gaming and we're get together. 

 

[genedjr]

On Discord - Discord was having issues this weekend.  We had to switch servers a couple of times as the problem moved around.  This was not only volume but voice quality as well.

But last night seemed to be fine.

...gene